Salt Spring Island Archives
| Accession Number | |||
| Date | 2005 | ||
| Media | digital recording | Audio | mp3 √ |
| duration | 32 min. |
345_Larry-Bell_Barbara-Aust_2005.mp3
otter.ai
16.02.2024
no
Outline
Unknown Speaker 0:00
Well, my name is Larry Bell, and we're conversing here at the hem resourcing of Canada office in May of oh five. So I have taken some notes for you here, Barbara, and says my name and address is my email address. And as you may know from my information on European coasts, h, k cilician, Hawaii. Some context that you may wish to contact is one gentleman by the name of preppy region. This is Fred Roldan senior. Fred is a has a history with Saltspring island. He knew my my great grandmother Mariah McCoy. And he's also a collection elder Mr. Rowland is very hard of hearing and an individual contact through him maybe his son I'd recommend to Towson tribes at some 466 money for I don't I don't know much about Mr. Rowland, he is a descendant of William nokhada, a Hawaiian to the local area. Now there are individuals who I spoke to this morning as Dan Marshall. Dan is consulting in history and First Nations well known throughout the country tribes. If you don't know I don't. Okay. Well, I found out he didn't have his phone number. Dan mentioned that you may want to contact Ruth Samwell, who was a teacher at McGill University on I don't know the
Unknown Speaker 1:23
spring in June launching her book.
Unknown Speaker 1:29
I don't really have never heard of her and an individual who may know after Thorn who's recommended contact.
Unknown Speaker 1:37
I found it I haven't.
Unknown Speaker 1:41
Okay. So in terms of family history, what what interested me in the article like you saw that people all interested me, specifically, the word Hawaiian was also the story about the lady here, Mary. And that sort of stood out for me. It came at me as being a part of my family history through, I guess, oral history, shall we say?
Unknown Speaker 2:08
According to what I know. My one of my ancestors. gentleman by the name of Edward great Fisher, who left England in the
Unknown Speaker 2:21
1864 1865 period, I can't remember what year to come to. Victoria area, shall we say. And he preempted as I understand Pierce Island around that time, and had a relationship with a woman by the name of Sarah. And they had a child born about 1864 or 1865, by the name of George Fisher and I believe he was born on piers Island around that time. Now, Fisher also preempted 150 acres in the couch and area and understand the area that he preempted the land was in the I can't really leave a gas station but just Rancocas Allah road and Trans Canada Highway around that time. Unfortunately, Fisher died around that same year at ATCT 1460. But due to an accidental gun shot, and I guess I know this because he was doing a lot of written about him, or his death, I should say, through a quarter coroner's report, headed by Alexander Cole, Phil Anderson, at the John Bull hotel in Cowichan Bay at that time, and the reason for the inquest, as I understand, it was that there was a question of whether it was murdered at the time, because there was a thought that perhaps there may have been some love interest between his love interest or some love jealousies between the First Nations man at that time and his wife, Sarah.
Unknown Speaker 3:57
In the local paper,
Unknown Speaker 4:01
museum I got coffee and in any respect to the results came out that it was accidental death. And this ancestor Fisher is buried at the butter Church of Kobe down there, but I understand from my conversation with the Father, Father, Conwell don't believe he's living. He's admit the man was buried outside of the sort of the church domain, shall we call it because it was also questioned whether it be suicide, okay, and the inquest came out that it was an accidental death, but tabasco's has been very that point. In any respect, from what I understand it according to the marriage records that I have going backwards here Sarah Who was the widow of the man who was killed everybody Fisher. They had a baby by the name of George Fisher. And the baby was taken away by the government and place that they call it St. Aloysius or Ella wishes, which was a facilities understanding in Victoria for children. So Sarah, was now widow, and she, on assaulting took a relationship up with a gentleman by the name of George Purser. And I don't know if they had children, I believe they did. And from my understanding, they were not well off, and I'll use the word quite poorly. In any respect, George Fisher did move back into the household on Saltspring island with his mother, who now what's known as Annie, I have the church records has provided me actually buying surely Robin Morrison, showing her her name that she was previously with. That was a fisher. So for whatever reason, it's interesting. Sara became any person with a different first name and a couple of pressure, and Purser committed suicide with a self inflicted gunshot wounds on Saltspring Island. And from my understanding, he did this out of poor health. They were very poor. And his wife had left him his body was found by George Fisher. Again, who is the son of Sarah slash Annie? And after that, and the family history tells me that this is like it's a long period of time between that Sara became known there's Mary gayness, right, good, little vague. And was of the couple with Charlie's also living on reserve on Saltspring Island, I guess which is in the facility of I believe it's called skull, Skull Island in a general vicinity. And I have to admit that I will have been to skull. I won't even call it Skull Island. Skull, I let small little places I recall, probably buried by so high times. But anyways, design your stance from talking family history. They had were murdered. And their bodies were never found. In my conversations with a collection elder, there were there were some spiritualists, who did know what were the word about the island, or the couple, but their bodies were never found. So when I saw that article newspaper, I said, Well, there's there's an ancestor of mine in a local newspaper. Again, that was that was pretty exciting. Thank you very much for the picture. Going back in a little bit, the Fisher, his, the Fisher evergreen Fisher. Yes, his information is about the coroner's office in the museum. And actually, some of his items of his own are in the museum also. And I seen the letters that his mother wrote to him, and they're very difficult to read. London fiber. And so I've seen pictures that are stories, letters of that his mother had written to him in England. And it was very interesting readings. And I haven't transcribed at home from big pharma, University of British Columbia. And you're interesting letters, because they read like a typical mother to a typical son for not having written like, you know, whether it be at 55 or 2005. Story, the England Son, do your duty, and why aren't you writing more often? That is kind of interesting. But it's also sad, because of course, he died in jail. And it's already called issues I heard regarding George Fisher, the son of the he was always heartsick because the parents they retained to collect in the parents England never came to collect, or to find out about him, and I understand he was quite saddened by that fact. What else can I tell you here
Unknown Speaker 9:29
in terms of the family, marry, from my research that I have spoken with, with two telogen elders, one being Ben Cummings, who is now deceased. I guess I spoke to Ben probably. Wow. 1989 1011 years ago, when I was living in Denton for a very short period of time. It was my last last contact that I had on the last day I lifted at that particular time. And he pointed me to the George family living down the street. And the years passed, and I ended up moving back to Duncan, and was able to contact George family. And it was kind of an interesting coincidence, like the death. I were during university of McAllen. And that time I worked with a lady by the name of Mary Peter. And I would talk to Mary about her her family connection. And one day she was walking by my desk and she mentioned or I asked her who her ancestors name was, and she said, I believe in aimless life and I know that that name and I asked her about her ancestry and I realized there was a connection made between the George family referral from Ben Knut to her family being George Ballard connection down in Clemson. So I left again time dwindled on and I, in my research, contacted the elite funding media Johnny nelder The cotton tribes and spoke to her out of St. Mary's Church and get his own COVID and she again pointed pointed me towards the St. George family. So I had some connections happening there. And I decided I would I would contact Mary piers mother, I believe is Evelyn. Evelyn George by pre marriage, my marriage and and Evelyn gave me an email to contact Sara modeste and we've connected about I guess about two or three months ago and shared the same stories in history specifically also including Salt Salt many yet and there were some interesting connections made there but nothing at this time which I can say that was the most that Sarah has said I can't say for sure that that I related to her but certainly she'd be pointing in that direction
Unknown Speaker 12:07
I think I think know what background center is where it is her her siblings was she from Georgia cheese to Haven like to Georgia
Unknown Speaker 12:23
I could not see that. From the names on the Catholic church records. It showed interest in collagen and again the knee gave the name to her as being reluctant not insisting on being her parents.
Unknown Speaker 12:37
Why did you get that information?
Unknown Speaker 12:39
Well I source first of all the shirt Shirley Morrison and then she obtained it from the Catholic church records and I believe this the marriage records of of Sarah utilizing him Annie to George Purser and it shows you those records that she was previously married to Fisher Fisher does and now there's a tie in between the name reluctance to the name you've given me here which I I hesitate to try to pronounce in conversation with another elder who I don't feel comfortable in Nene she was very interested in that connection that names reluctant not such not and possibly does that record with Call of a Sydney based connection. So Catholic Church referencing collagen but there may be indeed a connection to the Sydney of Sydney band
Unknown Speaker 13:42
I don't think it's collagen.
Unknown Speaker 13:44
And I said it would be That's true. People say up there but there is yeah, there seems to be a connection there with those names printed off here and I have to say the spelling may be a little bit off but it's such an such an honor and I have that now that could be Latinized right yes a little bit there a difficulty and again again the angle ification of a coach names for information things are difficult there so that you know less information I have here on in terms of that kind of connection I'm not sure if you're looking for other information on the Hawaiians
Unknown Speaker 14:28
Yeah, we aren't doing Hawaiian and First Nations. I have a context have a hard time getting Kathy rollin home she's my main content. Okay, she's
Unknown Speaker 14:39
insulting. No, she's
Unknown Speaker 14:40
in Victoria. Kathy Roland is is a relative. They're all related. And either to honey, okay, I went to school with Eva and garrison. Practical river
Unknown Speaker 14:58
wheeling Guilty guilty,
Unknown Speaker 15:01
got the pictures. We haven't got a lot of information like we've got pictures but nothing history wise. Not that much unless we go to the books that are already printed. And that's
Unknown Speaker 15:13
what I guess I have, you know a lot of reload information sources because in my mind, it comes from people who will frequently deceased now include my own mother and that who was a resource for the author cannot go find your mother who, who passed away was a source for both Jean barman and topple as were my aunts and uncles who who are in disease. So he started working on second generation now. And our information is a little history and starts coming from books or Oh nice. So my my great grandmother was Mariah McCoy, and her father, as far as I'm concerned is William coy berry on Saltspring Island 1881. Know what becomes interesting where you start. Jean Berman has written a book recently called the Rimal holiday Island. And she brings up some interesting questions about who the father of was in Mohali was because she was able to obtain Russell Island through proving to the DC court that she was a daughter of William I may not know, I don't know how he did that. And I understand the court records no longer exist. But I have seen the records, which the Catholic church records which do say William Malloy deceased at age 81. So I have to go to that. No, I have to accept what I've seen. She certainly was known when I was a boy has been William Malloy, come home. Come on, Sir William lamb away, come on, come on. It was also a question of how to pronounce that, etc. But now I understand it as being Mariah Malloy, cough homea. Because we get home, Mahalia was either her father's possibly, or at least a very close individual. And there's that for the question, who was her father? And I tend to believe the records that I've actually seen in the Catholic church records and stuff like that. But again, how did she obtain wrestler? I don't know. A part of my theory is that a person could ask why were the Hawaiians settled on Saltspring Island. And I guess I base it on. I believe there's a connection between, I'll call it William McCoy. Rival wastewater. And Nicola Connor, from my understanding was related to the twins of Kamehameha being coming to moku and come out of the first they were the world twins. So there is a connection from my understanding of nokhada. To that name, to those two twins. The oral history that I have is that indeed, Ryan McCoy had also a royal lineage. They start shaking your head a little bit St. Jesus has everyone got a native Indian princess? Does everyone have royal ancestry? Do all Americans come from the Mayflower? Wondering little bitty things. But the twins to Kamehameha again being Camille moku or come on about a first we're known as the real twins, which is the word boy. And indeed one of those twins names, I believe was coming up who had the name? Cop McCoy. Okay. So my first inclination was bingo. Okay. So, you know, I have the oral history that the she is related to the royal twins. The connection to Nakata, who is stated to be related to the royal twins. So from my research is leading to two things. Either she was or she wasn't. And when I got to Hawaii and spoken to people, I have been pointed to those two individuals. Which doesn't mean that when you Molly's father was coming or coming up with these. I don't know. But, indeed, the Mahoning Oh Hannah from Hawaii do say that they come from that family. So when I have done research, I have been pointed to them. And I've also been pointed away from them to a another Mojave family. And they're all from Maui to Mohali connection to a man who was a warrior king of Kamehameha. So indeed, the warrior king was royalty but not at the same height, shall we say, as the twins and the difficulty with that is an island I see and I've done some wine research is dispelling the same problems with First Nations and spellings of the names, the lengthening, they all start looking like, you know, we're going back to an area in Europe where information was not written down, you get down to oral history, you get down to variances in in that oral history it becomes very confusing and in dealing with something which is, in some cases 1000s and 1000s of miles away. And it was also interesting and hiding history. Some people don't always free with it, some people have it, but they don't want to share it, etc. So it gets down to that. So for my my assumption is that McCoy was related to Nakata. Hence, they're also interested in helping each other and living the same locations together. So I don't look at as just being the link to the same place because it was a nice place to live. It has certainly some an island, beautiful space, some relationships in terms of that and living in Hawaiian Isles. I believe they also went live together because they were also related. Even home Maya was unfamiliar who preempted Portland Island homea through mythology is related to Pele and Paley is the mythological or ancestral god of Mahoning Valley. So again, I sort of say the move they're not just because they were, they liked the place, but there were some relationships going on there. And you may say due to blood relationships, or perhaps distant or close mythological god relationships to each other. So that's, that's what I believe.
Unknown Speaker 21:50
Now there was another man smile pay now.
Unknown Speaker 21:55
I don't know I don't know. Pa,
Unknown Speaker 22:01
related accountant, murder family, and also to them that Garrison rollin.
Unknown Speaker 22:09
If you see the aggressive because any of the fellows that preempted with Nakada
Unknown Speaker 22:20
Oh, yeah. And they were on restaurant he married with a daughter.
Unknown Speaker 22:25
That's where I get a little tight. I can't think of a name there. So sorry, I have I don't have information
Unknown Speaker 22:32
on that. No, Kathy? Well, I think when I if I can touch with her.
Unknown Speaker 22:38
So, you know, I have done sort of genealogical research on the Mali side, getting what sort of information I can in terms of history of a commodity, communist coup, Kamehameha and the spiritual connections and mythological god connections to those individuals. And I have done some research where I can but I haven't on the on the Sarah reluctant OxygenOS. It provides me some very good information here. And I've taken as far as I can, but I really kind of stopped doing my research because it comes to dead ends.
Unknown Speaker 23:20
And you only know how far you go on that side. And I don't know how much further I can go.
Unknown Speaker 23:30
What about your brother?
Unknown Speaker 23:33
He's, he is giving me what I know. So that would be Carrie Leighton and I think a lot of the information he knows has also already been printed. Because it's all the same after a little while. But he he may be someone who may want to contact you've interested. Other names Sophie. And I don't know where she fits into
Unknown Speaker 23:55
a cursor. She I think was Farah and Purser she,
Unknown Speaker 24:00
oh no. She married a son of Magne
Unknown Speaker 24:03
on King. Okay. Mom, married. Okay. I gotta go back to get that straightened out.
Unknown Speaker 24:14
I think that information is in the book more I'm avoiding the island. And I believe that was supplied in part by my brother, Carolyn.
Unknown Speaker 24:27
One piece of information I've written down here that you might find is interest. I happen to have two sweaters in the sweaters, as we call it that are dated around I'm going to guesstimate in the late 30s or early 40s. These were sweaters that were made by First Nations family. As the pebble passed. Russell island I standing approached Russell Island and they asked my mother if she would like Indian sweaters and she agreed to do that and they utilize the willows Russ a sheet that we're raising Russell Eilat time. And they are made by I believe the jack family. Now I don't know if the family came from Saltspring Island or one of the other islands and I'm thinking tenure Dalian are Gabriel, perhaps. And he worked as a paddling, I assume to couching area for sweaters or for the wool, etc. I've got a couple of those artifacts. I also have a spoon. My brother does too. And I have made a basket as my family does, and a few other baskets. And what the source of those is, I'm not really sure whether they came from the Gulf Islands or not. I believe they were owned by Mary Jane Fisher, who was my grandmother and got it Ryan. I also have a silver bracelet that belonged to Ryan White. And it was dated for a galleys were guesstimated by gentleman named John Livingston, who is a well known West Coast artist, dated around the 20s has been for more than Vancouver Island property quad yields in nature. I've always wondered that connection because I don't know the mother. I don't know, the mother of Murayama way. I wouldn't bother is that I don't know the mother. strong inclination that it could be saw Eastern Europe and Victoria. But as a part of my spiritual he says that says no part of my spirit. This is quality of Northern Vancouver Island. And I base that in part by how I feel like based on part by the bracelet, and some connections that Ryan Molly has to Texas heat island and some other points in that area. Even her husband William works. That's a big post in Fort Rupert. So could it be? Could it be a connection? I don't know.
Unknown Speaker 27:01
Okay, that's very interesting.
Unknown Speaker 27:03
Are there any questions you have that perhaps I can help you with?
Unknown Speaker 27:05
And I can't think of any right now. I just want to know. I couldn't remember how Maria is related to how it how it is.
Unknown Speaker 27:18
Okay, so Mariah Mahoney is the daughter of William Malloy. And on her first marriage, she married a gentleman by the name of George Douglas, who was a sea captain in a whaler, who left her with, I believe, around 767 children. So she was a single woman, raising children, and later met George Fisher, the daughter of Annie slash, Sarah slash Mary. Okay. So she was much older than George Fisher. And she died before George Fisher. And George Fisher is, I believe, buried on Saltspring Island. And he live with my Aunt Gladys Gardner. And I believe George Fisher is very nice. When you die? What do I know? I don't know offhand. Sorry. Sorry, I don't know that.
Unknown Speaker 28:35
I'm not sure why I can tell you because everything is already existing in terms of books. The difficulty also comes as design. I am not the youngest generation, but I I am the youngest in my family. The lame. I guess one of the more interesting ones in terms of genealogy, and I've done the most in terms of the Hawaiian research. And the last in that wealth now, Sarah research. You know, some information comes to me from my conversations with my brother, Carolyn, and also from other members of family. So I've drifted down to the last few shows.
Unknown Speaker 29:16
Yeah, we'd be really interested in the background. Because of my great grandmother coming out about the same time
Unknown Speaker 29:26
I'm gonna read this down a little bit here. If you don't know. Your great grandmother was
Unknown Speaker 29:32
Suzanna George was her. Okay, so she married you know, tricky. I mean, it's gotta be her point. For making 60 until
Unknown Speaker 29:47
you got your point.
Unknown Speaker 29:49
Right next to him I had heard that he wants but I haven't done any paperwork or
Unknown Speaker 29:57
I've heard that and I'm The lady told me that was surely Morrison again. Now it's interesting that the name George family here comes up again. Correct. It would also fit getting complicated from my discussions that, to me, my name is Larry bell. And just because we have the same last name does not make us related. But we started dealing with George family, philosophy repoint. Okay. And piers Island and Saltspring Island are all kind of interconnected in that respect. And then you get down to the politics of the animal couch and interest in who told me that once the couch and people did own tickets reserved, I had that it went later on to the Sydney band or the North Saanich band through whatever reasons for it.
Unknown Speaker 30:54
I think it was from Korea, that they must have Spanish people on the reserves when these government workers came by and let me do the grammar. Bingo. There we go. Right.
Unknown Speaker 31:10
Yes, okay. So I've been told by a coach no girls so Yeah, indeed, we've made
Unknown Speaker 31:23
a commitment from the Georgia Tech guys. Yes.
Unknown Speaker 31:30
And there's also a connection between economy and protected.
Unknown Speaker 31:36
I don't think so. There's a connection between burgers, okay. That burgers, like I went school with Ronnie Patton burger, you know, like, and his great grandmother, and my great grandmother. Yes.
Unknown Speaker 31:56
So everyone gets related here. So as I say, I look at myself as being related to the role of family being you mentioned on the Hawaiian side. Marian standards is beginning to chart Well, Nick, and Charlie. And then locally we have what you said RV Charlie, and you sign in Charlie, and they admit to the all of that relationships here to
Unknown Speaker 32:25
pass. This is patent training.
Unknown Speaker 32:37
Right now I just
Unknown Speaker 32:40
asked you turn it off.
